The Convergence Zone Wed, 11 Aug 93 Volume 16 : Issue 1 Topics: (01) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (02) Type 23 in NACV "Force..." (03) Re: CZ Digest Volume ..." (04) Mac Harpoon (05) Miniature game question (06) Harpoon by modem "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 10:00:00 EDT From: cz-request@stsci.edu (CZ Administrator) Subject: Editorial It's been a while since Volume 15, mostly because there's been little in the way of submissions, but partly because work has kept me busy. This is the first issue of Volume 16, back issues should be in the archive. Several people have written to indicate problems with the archive; I'm working with the administrator to get that resolved. Note that we have changes to the Scenario Archives: we have a new dropsite and PC administrator -- note the changes in the Digest header above. New subscribers: (Steve Marsh) (Dr. DAVe) (Jan Mattsson) <72113.2436@CompuServe.COM> (Andrew Tabar) (Nicholas Sylvain) (Patrick Angus Flynn, MKA Sean C. O'Toole) (Adam Talcott) (N. S. Miceli) (John Chapman) (Redistribution? Bev Woolf - Sysop) (Brian Crebs) (Paul R. Tobia) (W. Rowe) (Goldman of Chaos) (Robert Hagglund) (Phil?) (Edwin Million) (Keith Grimes) (Dennis Milbert) (Tomasz W. Stepien) (Todd West) (David Linch) (Daniel King) tc> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 22:18:56 EDT From: Neville Sarkari Subject: Type 23 in NACV "Forced Issue" Can anyone tell me why the Type 23 ship, Lancaster, keeps starting out with no weapons or sensors in scenario 8 "Forced Issue" in the NACV battleset?? Can the ship be restored to fighting/ASW trim? All hints, comments, or suggestions welcome. Neville Sarkari nsark00@ukcc.uky.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 09:55:35 CDT From: jesse@masc1.rice.edu (Jesse Elliott Money) Subject: Re: CZ Digest Volume 15 #9 (msgs 65-71) I'm having trouble implementing scenarios into HARPOON. Can someone tell me how to do this? Thanks. Jesse [Mod note: If somebody wants to do a general treatment, please do submit it. Otherwise, please E-mail directly.] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:09:51 -0700 From: Lord Peter Wimsey Subject: Mac Harpoon What is going on at 360? Their support of the mac version is atrocious. Although I enjoy the additional platforms in HDS, the new version of the program is incredibly buggy. It won't allow me to switch targets when using either torps or guns, I can't use the long-range LGP pr sub-casliber shells for my guns, dual-purpose torps fired from ships can't be targeted against other ships, only subs, and I can't get a satisfactory response from 360. The new sonar model is nice, but when I'm not allowed to target that nearby destroyer with my torps, because there are bigger targets in range, it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. Anyone else have similar experiences with the mac version? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 16:49:38 +0200 From: Jan Mattsson Subject: Miniature game question Situation: An AS-4 cruises at VHigh altitude. Its target is a ship with point- defense AAA/SAMs only (maximum altitude: Low). In the turn that the AS-4 will reach its target it makes a steep dive from VHigh to impact. The missile will spend only a very short time at Low and VLow altitude. Question: Can a SAM mount use its full rate of fire in this situation? I know that the crossing target rule is applicable, but that models rapid bearing change, not that the diving missile is out of range for most of the turn. Some guns are immune to the crossing target rule (including the Phalanx, if memory serves). Did the game designer really have this situation in mind when the rules were written? I think these guns get an undeserved advantage in this situation. Does anyone else have thoughts about this? ------------------------------ From: Hotblack Desiato Subject: Harpoon by modem Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 9:27:25 GMT-3:30 Does anyone know if a version of Harpoon exists, or is in the works, to allow for two person playing over a modem or null modem cable?? -- tscott@morgan.ucs.mun.ca "A man will rise/A man will fall/ Industrial Engineering Tech. from the sheer face of love/ Like a fly from a wall" - U2 "Money goes to money heaven/Bodies go to body hell" - Tin Machine ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #1 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Fri, 27 Aug 93 Volume 16 : Issue 2 Topics: (07) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (08) RE: Mac Harpoon ROHDE@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV (09) HDS 2 bruce@bonnie.astro.ucla.edu (10) Mac Version Update wrowe@reed.edu (11) A1200 (12) Victory conditions ??? Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (13) munitions available fea... Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (14) Sea Shadow (15) amiga upgrades "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 12:00:00 EDT From: CZ Adminstrator Subject: Editorial New members since the last issue: (Burch Ben) (Nick Wyrdeman) Camber@DEBUG.CUC.AB.CA (Maarten Hazewinkel) (Cal Jewell) (Roland Chia) (Michael Vario) (Bradford Holden) (Mark Taylor) (Robert Andrew) (James Dusek) robear@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET (Ake Strindlund) (Andrew Stevens) (Ho How Hon) (Le Bui) (James-Jigu Bair) <100135.157@COMPUSERVE.COM> (John Butler) (Karl R. Sackett) (Dave Hornford) (Ric Testagrossa) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 16:30:40 -0500 (CDT) From: ROHDE@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV Subject: RE: Mac Harpoon >Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:09:51 -0700 >From: Lord Peter Wimsey >Subject: Mac Harpoon > > What is going on at 360? Their support of the mac version is atrocious. > Although I enjoy the additional platforms in HDS, the new version of the > program is incredibly buggy. It won't allow me to switch targets when > using either torps or guns, I can't use the long-range LGP pr sub-casliber > shells for my guns, dual-purpose torps fired from ships can't be targeted > against other ships, only subs, and I can't get a satisfactory response > from 360. The new sonar model is nice, but when I'm not allowed to target > that nearby destroyer with my torps, because there are bigger targets in > range, it doesn't do me a whole lot of good. Anyone else have similar > experiences with the mac version? Sorry Peter, 360 apparently has an IBM guru and that's where it ends. Those of us with other platforms (Amigas seem to be in the same boat) ... well, "don't hold your breath" as they say. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 13:53:58 -0700 From: bruce@bonnie.astro.ucla.edu Subject: HDS 2 I have been unable to find the first Designer's Series in the LA area, though I have seen many copies of the second, which I am considering buying. I have a couple of questions first (which basically boil down to "do I have to get HDS I first?") (1) Does HDS 2 include the upgrade from the 1.2x version to a 1.3x version? (2) Does it include the data for all the fancy units from HDS 1? Bruce Macintosh bruce@bonnie.astro.ucla.edu UCLA Department of Astronomy ------------------------------ From: wrowe@reed.edu (W. Rowe) Subject: Mac Version Update Date: Sun, 15 Aug 93 4:27:14 PDT Since I purchased Harpoon 1.2 for the Macintosh I've been greatly enjoying it. Yet I have heard nothing from Three-Sixty in regard to program updates or new versions. Is 1.2 still the most current version available for Mac's? Where or when can one hope for an upgrade? Please email my account: wrowe@reed.edu Thanks! -=WSR=- ------------------------------ From: Hotblack Desiato Subject: A1200 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 12:50:38 GMT-3:30 My roomamate has an Amiga 1200 wi5th AMIGA DOS 3.0. Anyone know of a patch that will him to run Harpoon trouble-free??? -- tscott@morgan.ucs.mun.ca "A man will rise/A man will fall/ Industrial Engineering Tech. from the sheer face of love/ Like a fly from a wall" - U2 "Money goes to money heaven/Bodies go to body hell" - Tin Machine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 13:13:22 -0500 From: Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu Subject: Victory conditions ??? How often does Harpoon check to see if victory conditions have been met ? If you complete a mission 5 minutes before game-time runs out, will the game still consider this a 'win' ? ------------------------------ Michael A. Ney Gettysburg College Neym@Gettysburg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 10:52:19 -0500 From: Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu Subject: munitions available feature -- splitting groups [Mod note - edited for format] Wouldn't it be nice to be able to see what units have munitions available when splitting groups? It always seems to be a guessing game to split units properly. E.G. Launch a group of F-18s with multiple loadouts. Then try to make an accurate 'split' of the group based on loadout type or remaining munitions. It can't be done. They are only listed as F18's-- there isn't any other info listed. Maybe the flaw is in my strategy of flying attack groups as a 'single' group. What's the recommended plan for sending groups out for attack (I hate having my AAW fighters get to the target early and alert their air defenses). Wouldn't it be cool to be able to click on a unit in the micro window and be able to get accurate an reflection of its' munitions available? ------------------------------------- Michael A. Ney Gettysburg College Neym@Gettysburg.edu ------------------------------ From: Ed Allen and Avi Rappoport Subject: Sea Shadow Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:48:11 -0700 There was a picture in the SF Chronicle last week of the Sea Shadow stealth ship undergoing testing on San Francisco Bay. It looks like a big stealth fighter with its wings bent down to dip into the water. Apparently it is a catamaran each of those "wing tips" is attached to a hull in the water. The accompanying article interviewed a navy officer spokesman who was on it for the trials and basically couldn't say anything about it, other than there was good coffee aboard and everything was painted green inside with lots of pipes and cables, just like in any warship. He mentioned that there had been a writeup in one of the popular mechanics magazines that had been pretty good but was incorrect on several particulars. Apparently, it was built in Redwood City inside another ship anchored there. It should have some interesting stats in Harpoon, a shame the pertinent info is all heavily classified. ;-) It'll be a neat model kit for use in science fiction gaming as soon as the styrene model companies get their molds made. It's kind funny that the new stealth craft are all so strange looking that they don't look out of place in a science fiction miniatures game. Ed Allen edandavi@well.sf.ca.us ------------------------------ Subject: amiga upgrades Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 07:50:31 MET From: Lars Martin Hansen Do anyone know if there is an Amiga upgrade available on the Inet somewhere? I'm still stuck on Version 1.0, and I'm NOT paying for the full games once more. I've alreaddy bought the game twice, and that is enough... Lars M. Hansen AID, Grimstad, Norway. hala@aid.no "There are no bugs, only unrecognized features" ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #2 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Wed, 20 Sep 93 Volume 16 : Issue 3 Topics: (16) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (17) Re: CZ Digest V16 lcline@ibeam.intel.com (18) re: mac harpoon (19) RE: Mac Harpoon wam@tfn.com (20) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- HDS rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (21) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- loads rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (22) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- Amiga rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (23) Mines in Harpoon, how? "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 93 11:30:00 EDT From: CZ Adminstrator (cz-request@stsci.edu) Subject: Editorial Things have been trickling in pretty slowly, but this last article may spark some ideas. New members since last time: (Judd Slivka) (John Butler) (Davide Franco) (Bo Arnklit) (Tobin M. Johnson) (William Jennings) (Michael Matzek) (Morten Weis) (Michael L Sung) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 11:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: lcline@ibeam.intel.com (Larry Cline) Subject: Re: CZ Digest V16 #2 (msgs 7-15) > > From: Hotblack Desiato > Subject: A1200 > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 12:50:38 GMT-3:30 > > My roomamate has an Amiga 1200 wi5th AMIGA DOS 3.0. Anyone know of a > patch that will him to run Harpoon trouble-free??? The current version of Amiga Harpoon is 1.1. You should be able to call 360 and get a free upgrade. (At least, mine was free several years ago. > Subject: amiga upgrades > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 07:50:31 MET > From: Lars Martin Hansen > > Do anyone know if there is an Amiga upgrade available on the Inet somewhere? > I'm still stuck on Version 1.0, and I'm NOT paying for the full games once > more. I've alreaddy bought the game twice, and that is enough... > See above. I don't think it is available on the Internet but you should be able to get a free upgrade through 360 or it's European rep. Larry Cline (Amiga Harpoon Scenario Administrator) lcline@ibeam.intel.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 22:06:19 CEST From: Emilio Desalvo Subject: re: mac harpoon > Sorry Peter, 360 apparently has an IBM guru and that's where it ends. > Those of us with other platforms (Amigas seem to be in the same boat) > ... well, "don't hold your breath" as they say. We should probably gang up and start making a lot of noise with 360, if we want to see someting for the Amiga and the Mac, in the future. The development for the Amiga has already stopped! Bye Emilio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 16:09:57 EDT From: wam@tfn.com (Wayne MacLaughlin) Subject: RE: Mac Harpoon >From: wrowe@reed.edu (W. Rowe) >Subject: Mac Version Update >Date: Sun, 15 Aug 93 4:27:14 PDT > [Mod Note: Text of previous message deleted] 1.2 is the most current Mac version. I originally had Harpoon 1.0 and wasn't very happy with it - so I waited for Three-Sixty to send me blurbs about upgrades as they became available; after all I did send in my registration card so I was on the mailing list, right? Well after people in CZ had been talking about 1.1 for a while, I called Three-Sixty and found out that I wasn't on the mailing list. So I got myself added to the list and also got an upgrade to 1.1 which was much better. A while passed and I never got any mailings. I recently bought a Centris with color, and about 2 weeks ago I spent days (many) trying to get through to the technical support phone line to find out about getting a color version of Harpoon. When I finally got through I found out that I still wasn't on the mailing list. I was instructed to mail them my original program disk, and for $10 I could get the latest and greatest Harpoon (1.2) and would get added to the mailing list. It shouldn't be this hard. Don't they realize that if we know about new versions we might buy them? They do want to sell us stuff, right? Now if only the game screen would fit my monitor size .... Wayne MacLaughlin wam@tfn.com Thomson Financial Services ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 07:31:11 -0400 From: rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (Chuck J. Rouhier) Subject: Re: CZ Digest V16 #2 (msgs 7-15) > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 > Subject: HDS 2 > Bruce, >... > I have a couple of questions first (which basically boil down to "do I have > to get HDS I first?") > No. You do not need HDS I in order to load HDS II. > (1) Does HDS 2 include the upgrade from the 1.2x version to a 1.3x version? > (2) Does it include the data for all the fancy units from HDS 1? > Yes to both of the above. Charles J. Rouhier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 07:31:11 -0400 From: rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (Chuck J. Rouhier) Subject: Re: CZ Digest V16 #2 (msgs 7-15) > ...It always seems to be a guessing game to split units properly. E.G. > Launch a group of F-18s with multiple loadouts. Then try to make an > accurate 'split' of the group based on loadout type or remaining > munitions. It can't be done. They are only listed as F18's-- there > isn't any other info listed. > Right on that account. > Maybe the flaw is in my strategy of flying attack groups as a 'single' > group. > Yes. Split your groups up into seperate formations of like groups (i.e., F/A-18's with Air-to-Air in one group, F/A-18's with standoff in another). There may be more groups out there, but at least you know whats what. Also, remember that USAF and USN generally fly elements of two or four aircraft. > What's the recommended plan for sending groups out for attack (I hate > having my AAW fighters get to the target early and alert their air > defenses). Send them in early. It is almost always preferable to at least have local air superiority before sending in the bombers. Remember that in Harpoon 1.3 as soon as an enemy A/C launchs an A/A missile at your bombers, your bombers will jettision their ordance and run for home. Much better to have to enemy either shot down or wasting their missiles on your fighters. > > Wouldn't it be cool to be able to click on a unit in the micro window > and be able to get accurate an reflection of its' munitions available? It does. Select the group you want in the Unit Window, bring up the display for that unit and select weapons. It will show you everything you have remaining. Charles J. Rouhier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 07:31:11 -0400 From: rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (Chuck J. Rouhier) Subject: Re: CZ Digest V16 #2 (msgs 7-15) > Subject: amiga upgrades > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 Lars, > Do anyone know if there is an Amiga upgrade available on the Inet somewhere? > I'm still stuck on Version 1.0, and I'm NOT paying for the full games once > more. I've alreaddy bought the game twice, and that is enough... > Three-Sixty dropped all support for the Amiga when they started development of the 1.3 series. Also, I do not believe that they are developing an Amiga version of Harpoon II. Charles J. Rouhier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 15:42:14 +0200 (EET DST) From: Sami Koskinen Subject: Mines in Harpoon, how? Mines play a significant role in naval operations at coastal and shallow waters, but there is no rules for them in Harpoon (the board game). Has anybody done any work on this? sarkku -- / face my sword... SEERSUCKER! email: Sami.Koskinen@hut.fi / that's a joke, son -- but _ / no one's going to get it for, at \/ LEAST five thousand years... ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #3 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Fri, 29 Oct 93 Volume 16 : Issue 4 Topics: (24) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (25) Harpoon sound support mr!dev2!rbuyaky@uu3.psi.com (26) Dusty versions (27) Naval Institute Proceed... tojohnso@major.cs.mtu.edu (28) What is available? (29) A glimmer of things to ... (30) More Mac(1.21) bugs ummorea0@CC.UManitoba.CA (31) Creating custom weapon ... stb@isbank.is (32) Twenty+ Questions "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:50:13 EDT From: (The Convergence Zone) Subject: Editorial. I realized this morning that it had been quite some time since I published a CZ Digest. I apologize -- this is a busy time for us -- and promise to do better. I'm working on some tools to make things easier for me, and will try to settle on a regular publication schedule. (Like weekly.) New users since the last issue: (Robert Hagglund) (Eddan Yee) (Lars_Henrik_B=F8ler_Olafsen) (Michael Charles Walker) (Reinier) (Katy Stone) (Rudy Tan) (Michael Hobart) (Paul Gunn) (Joaki Boalt) (Jonathan L. Reimer) (Ed Ehrlich) (Kevin Froese) (Magnus Norling) (Gregg Gallagher) (Douglas Johnson) (David M. Faguy) (Lehtonen Tero) (J.P. Hillenburg) (Mark Kyprianou) (Lars Jensen) (Duncan Allen) (Steve's Public Amiga Box ) (JP Tetreau) (Simon Edwards) (David Brenner) () ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 16:43:01 EDT From: mr!dev2!rbuyaky@uu3.psi.com (Reid R. Buyaky) Subject: Harpoon sound support I was on the original beta test team for Harpoon several years ago, and frankly became weary of playing the same scenarios over and over again. Since that time, I've upgraded my system from a 286 to a 386/40, and added an SBPro. I've always had a Roland MT-32, but on the versions I played it was not supported. Reading this list has again sparked my interest in Harpoon, and I wondered if MT-32 support has been added (it used to be an unavailable choice on the configuration menu), and if it would be worth it for me to upgrade from whatever version I have to the latest (1.32?). Would it be better for me to get the Designer version instead of just the upgrade? While play testing I was hopelessly addicted to the game, although I'm NOT really a war game fanatic. -- Reid R. Buyaky (Software Systems Engineer) Micro Resources, Inc. -- rbuyaky@mr.com Heartland Multiline BBS - 614-846-7669 MajorNet - Sysop@HRT -- Laws of Serendipity: 1. In order to discover anything, you must be looking for something. 2. If you wish to make an improved product, you must already be engaged in making an inferior one. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 16:16:01 MDT From: Randy J Ray Subject: Dusty versions I just got back into playing my computer-Harpoon since I got a roommate with a PC. I am not sure what version I have, nor what is the latest for the PC. How can I tell what version I have, and get the latest from 360? I know that Harpoon II is on the horizon, are all of us registered users going to have to buy a new game, or will we get discounts? Also, I have a problem with the automatically-managed AAW defense. I am very fond of "The Duel" in the GIUK pak. I play it over and over, trying to optimize my performance (I have thus far come as close as losing only the Swiftsure class sub and one Cornwall class ship). But sometimes I watch with growing annoyance as Red missles pour in while no ships fire AA missles in defense. With the Tico class at 0% damage, and all other ships fine, some case no AA missles have been fired yet, so I even have a full load of ordnance. Is this a bug in an early version, or do I have some setting that I am unaware of that is interfering? Randy, who doesn't even have any extra battlesets... -- =============================================================================== Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST IT/CSD rray@lookout.mtt.it.uswc.uswest.com Phone: (303)595-2852 "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin =============================================================================== ------------------------------ From: tojohnso@major.cs.mtu.edu (Johnson) Subject: Naval Institute Proceedings Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 9:42:03 EDT I would like to know how to get a copy of the Naval Institute Proceedings, which Ted Kim was extracting information from to put in CZ. I would also like to know if Ted, or anyone else with access to that or similar information sources, would continue that practice as I felt that was one of the better aspects of CZ. [Mod Note: _Proceedings_ is included with membership in the United State Naval Institute. The cost of a one-year membership, which also includes discounts on USNI books, is $30.00 (US). USNI can be reached at 800-233-8674, and will accept phone orders with Master Card or VISA.] &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && && && && Tobin M. Johnson && Electrocution - burning at the stake && && tojohnso@mtu.edu && with all the modern conveniences. && && n2mvq@w8yy.upmi.mi && && && (amatuer radio) && && && && && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "David A. Smith" Subject: What is available? What is avalible on the differnet computer platforms? (IBM compat. Mac, Amiga?) and where are they heading. I keep seeing notes on this list about feature of 1.3, or harpoon 2 or 1.1, etc. I have a Mac with version 1.2 (I think) and Would like to know what applies to me and waht is comming out for it, as I am sure others would too. Thanks to all. Oh, what do all the extentions do as well? David A. Smith | "I like to skate on the other side of the ice" - dasmith@suntan.ec.usf.edu | I have no knowlege of anything, and for that - smithd@eggo.csee.usf.edu | matter, neither does USF. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 14:19:01 -0400 From: "Robert H. Tullman" Subject: A glimmer of things to come.. Here is a little snippet from the RIME Wargames conference posted by one of the Harpoon II beta testers..Not sure what the question was that provoked the response from 360..I think it was regarding chasing false (neutral) contacts.... To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: HARPOON II NEWS Conf: (82) Wargames ------------------------------------------------------------------- The following was left by Mike at Three-Sixty in response to a suggestion for Harpoon II. I thought all you Harpoonheads out there might find it interesting. ============================================================ ****Harpoon II**** Great idea! Only one problem with that; We intend on having you poor, helpless Harpoon-II players running in circles chasing false contacts and decoys, not to mention worrying about lots of other things (both horrible and mundane) like navigation, weather, patrols, jamming, satellite passes, EMCOM, datalinks, fuels states (ships and A/C), underway replenishment, repairs, etc... All of these tasks should keep you and your crew busy as beavers, right up until the enemy missiles burst through the bulkhead. --Three-Sixty[Mike] ============================================================= BTW, word is that the game will be going into Beta testing in about 2 weeks!!! Depending on the bugs found and how long it takes to fix them it'll maybe be out this year. That is just MY personal observation and is NOT an official estimate. Three-Sixty has done a lot of soul-searching lately and has really changed the way they operate....for the better, IMHO. They now give candid progress reports of work in development.....they actually delayed the release of the V4Victory Gold/Juno/Sword scenario when a late breaking bug was found. So hopefully, when H II IS released it won't be the bug infested product we got when we ran out and bought Harpoon I. --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 93 11:05:12 CDT From: ummorea0@CC.UManitoba.CA Subject: More Mac(1.21) bugs I made up a scenario with subs at varios depths/speeds etc to play arrounf with a few ideas. I had set a Typhoon to be surfaced and just to sit there. I found wit with my AWACS and sent a Orion after it. Harpoon wouldn't let me fire harpoon on it, even though it was surfaced. I tried sending sone Harriers set on standoff after it and they said they had no ASW weapons. Now couldn't you use Harpoon(or any anti-shipping missle) against a surfaced sub? All it would let me do was let me drop torps on it, a real pain in the but. I figured that a Mk50 wouldm't work too well against a surfaced sub as it was designed to be used against submerged targets. Any ideas??? One more thing while I have you all here. Has any one else noticed a bug with the Naval Osprey dipping sonar? Like it actully works! I mean better then some of the ships! I pick up targets with it at 150nm's. I assume that this a bug(feature?) of sorts. Gene Moreau | "Morning comes far to early when it's cold University of Manitoba | outside and there is a maniac on the loose" Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | - unknown ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 16:28:14 GMT From: stb@isbank.is (Steintor Bjarnason) Subject: Creating custom weapon outfits on SU-27 ? One of the major problems which I have had as playing as RED (USSR ?,Russia, Romonov) against BLUE (USA) is that the BLUE planes usually have better missiles than the RED have. For example the F14 has the AIM-120 with max range of 120 miles, the F18 (and a lot of others) have the AMRAAM with max range of 40 miles but the SU-27 has missiles with max range of 25 miles. In one of the airplane magazines I recently read a article about the R-77 missile which has a similar range as the AMRAMM, also the KS-172 (AWACS killer, range 400 km) was mentioned. The article also said that the AA-9 Amos missile can be used on the SU-27. Is it possible to change (patch) Harpoon so that it would be possible to outfit my SU-27s with them. I would *love* to be able to shoot those damn AWACS planes down 400 km away. What is the status on Harpoon-II ? Does anyone know ? P.S. I have been trying to send e-mail to 360 Pacific but haven't received any replies. Are they still alive ? -- Steinthor Bjarnason | ICEUUG chairman | This space available for Islandsbanki h.f. | Internet: stb@isbank.is | rent..... Kringlan 7 | Tel: +354-1-608000 | 155 Reykjavik, Iceland | Fax: +354-1-678711 | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 16:50:13 EST From: "WILLIAM JENNINGS" Subject: TWENTY+ QUESTIONS A grab bag of questions, loosely grouped: AMPHIBIOUS AIRWINGS: Do LHD/LHA/LPH ever carry ASW helos? I am envisioning a scenario with a LHD operating in an escort carrier role. What is an appropriate airwing composition for such a role? CARRIERS: I read that the Clinton administration's Base Plan included 11 carriers + 1 training carrier. Is this the same as Bush's 12 carrier plan or was that really a 12+1 plan? Which CVs will be kept? (Nimitzes + Enterprise?) ------------------------------------------------ COMMAND LEVELS: What are the ranks of the commanders of various ship types? Is any of the following accurate? USN RN SOVNAV FF Cmdr ??? Capt2 DD ??? Capt ??? CG Capt ??? ??? LHD/CVH Capt Capt ??? CV(N) Capt ??? Capt1 SS ??? Cmdr ??? SSN Cmdr Capt Capt1 SS(B/G)N Capt Capt Capt1 I am also interested in typical ranks of various formation commanders [2FF,3FF,larger FF/DD groups,SAGs,MAGs(?),an LHD escort group,etc.] Of perhaps more interest would be typical side commander ranks for the BattleSet scenarios. This would enable one to "advance" through the scenarios in a logical progression. Does anyone knowledgeable want to take this on? For another method of logical progression: SCENARIO RATINGS: The HDS2 booklet includes Difficulty ratings for each scenario on a 1-5 scale. Has anyone undertaken a comparable rating of the original 4 BattleSet scenarios? ------------------------------------------------ FORCE COMPOSITION: For realism in creating scenarios, I am interested in a typical force composition of the STAFORLANT, Australian IO forces (I am guessing these have USN/RN class ships since there is no Australian entry in the Electronic Data Annex), & COMEASTLANT forces. FORTS & FRIGATES: I read (in _Vanguard to Trident_, I think) that some modern RN frigates carried helicopters but did not have repair facilities. The Fort ships filled this role (among others). Which FFs does this apply to and how long can FF-based helos operate without repair support? ------------------------------------------------ FRESHWATER TRIDENT: Tangential question/perhaps applicable to Harpoon II: In an 80's Naval Institute _Proceedings_, I saw a proposal for non-Ohio Trident subs in the Great Lakes as a Rail-car MX alternative. This seemed somewhat outlandish, but a VADM on the _Submarines: Sharks of Steel_ documentary, said there could be a SSBN in the Great Lakes. Is this for real?/Did I miss something? What does Canada think? Wouldn't moving them through locks be unstealthy? GATEKEEPERS: Bond's _Red Phoenix_ includes a Sturgeon-class SSN off a Soviet Pacific Fleet base. Similarly, Clancy's _Red Storm Rising_ has an improved Los Angeles & the Narwhal listening off the Kola Peninsula. Which bases might merit such a gatekeeper? What class sub is reasonable to use (USN or otherwise)? Do the aforementioned novels accurately reflect some Atlantic-Pacific dichotomy? SEALANCE: The _Red Storm Rising_ game has these missiles in the 1992/96 scenarios and they are a great boon. They have much longer range than the surface launched ASROCs in Harpoon. Do they appear anywhere in the regular or HDSx BattleSets? Have they actually been developed? Will they replace ASROC as well as giving submarines a standoff weapon? SUBMARINE MISC: Why are only two torpedoes simultaneously fireable on USN subs? What are the practical differences between the improved LA, Providence & San Juan "classes" (they are listed as such in the Electronic Data Annex) in gaming & real-life terms? Subs: "boats" or "ships?" What is the correct nomenclature these days? Does it vary by class/navy? SSN vs. SSBN? ------------------------------------------------ BATTLEBOOK: How useful is this? How does it compare to the tactics book in HDS2? How does one obtain it? BOMBSIGHTS: The Electronic Data Annex gives Bomb ph information based on bombsight type (none, Ballistic, Computing, Advanced). What's the difference? Which aircraft have which? GREEN FORCES: Are there ever any neutrals in computer Harpoon? If so, how do I ID them? MAD DETECTION: What is the optimal altitude for MAD detection (in reality/the game)? Does it differ for helicopters & airplanes? NACV Scenario 10? ("Any port..."): The forces allocated to COMEASTLANT seem low. I thought COMEASTLANT was the RN CINCFLEET. Also, why can't I ferry the shore based Sea Kings to ships? The Electronic Data Annex indicates I can (is it a HDS_ vs. NACV issue?). NAVAL NEWS: Occasionally, someone forwards items from the Naval News Service. What is it & how can CZ readers get on the distribution list? While visiting the submarine museum at Pearl Harbor I picked up a COMSUBPAC public affairs tabloid. Are there other media (particularly free/ electronic ones - official or otherwise) which one can receive? PREPOSITIONING SHIPS: What is the difference between Maritime Prepositioning ships and Afloat Prepositioning Force ships? RWR: This is listed as an aircraft feature in the Electronic Data Annex. What is it? TARGETING: I understand that there are different methods guided weapons use in targeting multiple unit groups. Some methods include proximity (closest unit get all of the attention), random, & one-to-one. Does Harpoon accurately model this issue (via ph adjustments perhaps)? [Mod Note: Looks like a good starting point for a FAQ list. Any volunteers?] ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #4 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Fri, 05 Nov 93 Volume 16 : Issue 5 Topics: (33) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (34) Re: Creating custom w... (35) Harpoon upgrade/platfo... (36) Re: 20+ Questions (37) Scenario Adaption "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Nov 93 15:00:00 EST From: (Convervence Zone Administrator Subject: Editorial A fairly short issue this time, but in keeping with the "once-a-week-if-I-can-possibly-manage" approach. New since last time: (Marc Jacobs) (David L. Brenner) <73003.2521@COMPUSERVE.COM> (Geoff Newton) (Simon Kingsbury) (Terje Berg) (Stewart E. Yin) (Jonas Lang) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 18:35:33 EDT From: mckinney@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Creating custom weapon outfits on SU-27 ? To Steintor Bjarnason: I don't know what magazine you were reading, but my sources indicate that the AA-9 is _not_ compatible with the Su-27. As to the "R-172," it may have a 400 nm max range, but that doesn't tell us how useful it would be. The AWACS could detect the incoming missile at a significant range (remember, the antenna in the nose of a missile is an excellent reflector -- missile radar signatures from head-on are quite large) and shut down the radar for a bit until the missile missed. As to implementing an "R-172" in Harpoon on computer, you'd need some sort of tweak that essentially only allowed its use against AWACS. As to the R-77 "AMRAAMski" it is not yet in field use with the Russian air arms, although it should probably be implemented in Harpoon. The R-27 (AA-10 "Alamo") should also have pretty good range (I don't recall what Su-27s are credited with carrying in the computer version). On the question of ASMs/SSMs vs subs -- yes, they should work vs. surfaced subs, but that is such an uncommon occurence, and subs can dive so quickly, that it is propbably not worth implementing in the computer game. Ah, another advantage of pencil-and-paper games -- it's so easy, cheap, and quick to tweak the rules for all sorts of oddities! Sealance -- cancelled several years ago. Cost overruns, performance difficulties. I always wondered why we wanted a weapon with vastly more range than the sensors of any of our platforms. I guess we were going to use a bunch of SOSUS and SURTASS cueing. RWR = Radar Warning Receiver A passive electronic detection device mounted on aircraft to alert them to hostile radars. Early versions could only detect lock-ons in a narrow band. Newest versions will detect searchs, lock-ons, missile launches over a very wide band. Similar to the ESM sets carried by ships, but generally less capable (smaller size). Ethan McKinney MIT Defense & Arms Control Program ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 00:46:57 -0230 (NDT) From: Hotblack Desiato Subject: Harpoon upgrade/platform change I'm changing from an Amiga system to a MS-DOS system. I have Harpoon V1.1 and HDS1 fot the amiga. Is there any kind of plan available where I can trade in my current disks for a reduced price on the DOS version? tscott@morgan.ucs.mun.ca "A man will rise/A man will fall/ Industrial Engineering Tech. from the sheer face of love/ Like a fly from a wall" - U2 "Money goes to money heaven/Bodies go to body hell" - Tin Machine ------------------------------ Subject: Re: 20+ Questions From: "John Limpert" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 06:18:00 -0400 (EDT) > FRESHWATER TRIDENT: Tangential question/perhaps applicable > to Harpoon II: In an 80's Naval Institute _Proceedings_, I > saw a proposal for non-Ohio Trident subs in the Great Lakes > as a Rail-car MX alternative. This seemed somewhat > outlandish, but a VADM on the _Submarines: Sharks of Steel_ > documentary, said there could be a SSBN in the Great Lakes. > > Is this for real?/Did I miss something? What does Canada > think? Wouldn't moving them through locks be unstealthy? During World War II the Navy had a submarine yard in Manitowoc, Wisconsin. According to my Uncle, who lives nearby, it built diesel-electric fleet class submarines and was shut down after the end of the war. There is plenty of room in Lake Michigan to hide SSBNs. A SSBN is much larger than a World War II era diesel-electric boat but I don't see why they couldn't be stationed in the Great Lakes. The Canadians might not like it but they couldn't do much about it. Their complaints about alleged incursions of U.S. submarines into Canadian waters in the Atlantic have been ignored by the U.S. Navy. The Canadian Navy is too weak to do anything about it. > MAD DETECTION: What is the optimal altitude for MAD > detection (in reality/the game)? Does it differ for > helicopters & airplanes? A P3C technician told me that the MAD equipment has a short detection range. The P3C has to fly at a very low altitude and it practically has to fly right over the submarine to get a response from the MAD. [Mod note -- edited -- duplicate response.] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 20:49:49 PST From: wrowe@reed.edu (W. Rowe) Subject: Scenario Adaption I've just picked up some interesting looking Harpoon scenarios for the Mac version from the anonymous ftp site listed in Convergence Zone. Now I have a problem that I strongly suspect is common, if not a FAQ. How the heck do I make these scenarios playable? I've fiddled around a bit with Resedit to no avail. Could someone email me with instructions, or send a note in to Convergence Zone about this? I sincerely hope I'm not the only person to get stuck so close, but yet so far. W. Rowe wrowe@reed.edu ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #5 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Fri, 12 Nov 93 Volume 16 : Issue 6 Topics: (38) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (39) AMRAMM-ski/AWACS kills (40) Refueling from Tanker A... (41) Some answers to Twenty ... (42) CZ Twenty Questions, mo... (43) Freshwater SSBN and Can... (44) Harpoon II "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 10:35:00 EST From: CZ Administrator Subject: Editorial As mentioned in the Special Bulletin that went out earlier today, the number in last week's Digest for USNI was incorrect. Unfortunately, the number in the Special Bulletin was _also_ incorrect. The correct number (really) is (800) 233-8764. Thanks to Neil Galarneau for providing the actual, correct number. cz> New members since last time: (Jonas Lang) (Andrew Liss) (L.R. Stewart) (Ray Brandt) () (Brian Taylor) (Jeffrey A. Stuart) ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 1 November 1993 09:11:39 PDT8 From: "Steve Gable" Subject: Re: CZ Digest V16 #4 (msgs 24-32) > One of the major problems which I have had as playing as RED (USSR > ?,Russia, Romonov) against BLUE (USA) is that the BLUE planes usually > have better missiles than the RED have. For example the F14 has the > AIM-120 with max range of 120 miles, the F18 (and a lot of others) have > the AMRAAM with max range of 40 miles but the SU-27 has missiles with > max range of 25 miles. In one of the airplane magazines I recently read > a article about the R-77 missile which has a similar range as the > AMRAMM, also the KS-172 (AWACS killer, range 400 km) was mentioned. The > article also said that the AA-9 Amos missile can be used on the SU-27. > At the time the game was released these missiles were not available. I have always felt one of the attractions of the game was the dissimilar weapons each side has to employ. I prefer Red with the Backfires and 250 mile cruise missiles. This combination is unbeatable if used properly. One way to get rid of those annoying AWACS is to use the air to air variant of the Backfires. One group can decoy the Blue air CAP and draw all the defenders missiles (including AMRAAMs). By staying at the edge of missile range the decoy can keep attracting missiles yet still move away before they arrive. Once the Blue CAP has exhausted all its missiles the decoy group can bag a few as a bonus. This tactic works best for longe range radar missiles. The second group, which has been loitering beyond radar detection (loitering low helps), then sprints in to down the AWACS before help arrives. This tactic can work with any fighter but works best with the air to air Backfires. I have also used a variation of this to strip a carrier fleet of its S3 ASW. Without S3s, a fleet can be decimated by subs lying quiet in its path. Try it and let me know what you think. Regards, Steve Meaders ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 93 1:44:47 PST From: wrowe@reed.edu (W. Rowe) Subject: Refueling from Tanker Aircraft When using the Macintosh version of Harpoon v1.2 I notice that some planes can be given a tanker mission load. But what I don't know is how to actually reload other planes from the tankers. There is no specific command for this, and no other means of accomplishing this as far as I know. Is this possible, or just a semi-implementation? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1993 10:16:08 -0600 (CST) From: Russell Reddoch Subject: Some answers to Twenty questions > AMPHIBIOUS AIRWINGS: Do LHD/LHA/LPH ever carry ASW helos? > I am envisioning a scenario with a LHD operating in an > escort carrier role. What is an appropriate airwing > composition for such a role? Aside from some problems with magazines for ASW weapons and a slight difference in spare parts requirements there is no inherent reason ASW helos can not be carried. The present trend is to disperse ASW helos to escorts to allow large decks to carry more aircraft that must operate from big decks. Being used as an ASW platform is inefficient, since there is a lot of troop support space "wasted". Look to the old CVS airwing for some ideas. A "small" number of fighters (VSTOL Harriers in this case) for self defense and "anti-surface" asw. A fair number of ASW aircraft, and possible a few AEW helos. > CARRIERS: I read that the Clinton administration's Base > Plan included 11 carriers + 1 training carrier. Is this the > same as Bush's 12 carrier plan or was that really a 12+1 > plan? Which CVs will be kept? (Nimitzes + Enterprise?) > ------------------------------------------------ The training carrier has been an older carrier, essential difference is the crew and logistic support available. The CVT has a stripped crew, many of the aircraft maintenance, and weapons handling personnel are missing, since the training mission uses shore based (though carrier capable) aircraft. (The student pilots fly out to practice carrier landings/takeoffs, then normally return to training field.) All carrier crew has to be able to do is refuel, and make enough repairs to allow aircraft to fly home if some equipment goes down. This is a significant personnel and spare parts saving. Well worth the cost to avoid having to keep cycling fleet carriers into training area to provide the needed training deck. Depending ship being used, the training carrier also provides a mobilization fleet carrier, since the in commission ship can be made fully operationaly faster then a mothballed one. (Note that in the past the CVT was an older carrier that was not really capable of operating all the first line carrier aircraft. The movement of a Forrestal class big deck into the CVT mission would provide a potentially fully capable deck.) > FRESHWATER TRIDENT: Tangential question/perhaps applicable > to Harpoon II: In an 80's Naval Institute _Proceedings_, I > saw a proposal for non-Ohio Trident subs in the Great Lakes > as a Rail-car MX alternative. This seemed somewhat > outlandish, but a VADM on the _Submarines: Sharks of Steel_ > documentary, said there could be a SSBN in the Great Lakes. I believe the initial idea was to use a conventional powered submarine, as the need for self defense, and prolonged submergance would be minimal in internal waters. The potential cost savings were reason for idea. (While a SSBN also gets these advantages there is, of course, no cost saving and there is a real target flexablitly penalty.) > > Is this for real?/Did I miss something? What does Canada > think? Wouldn't moving them through locks be unstealthy? It is ok to be unstealthy as long as you are unpredicatably so. Think about the problem from the point of view of someone planning a surprize attack. This is similar to fact that SSBNs are sometimes in port. It does little good to someone planning surprize attack, unless it is predicatable, and allows a significant number of normally hidden targets to be attacked. > > MAD DETECTION: What is the optimal altitude for MAD > detection (in reality/the game)? Does it differ for > helicopters & airplanes? Think about the physical detection equipment. Magnetic fields have relatively short ranges. The lower the better, limit is flight safty. Note also: the detection depends on relative motion. (It is the change in field that is detected by induced current.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1993 10:46:55 -0600 (CST) From: Russell Reddoch Subject: CZ Twenty Questions, more comments [Mod note: Edited for brevity.] >> FRESHWATER TRIDENT: ... >...waters in the Atlantic have been ignored by the U.S. Navy. The Canadian >Navy is too weak to do anything about it. > The US and Canadia enjoy the longest demilitarized border in the world. This is a matter of treaty, so certainly Canadia could do something about it if they wanted to. (A trivial comment, in WWII the USN operated a paddle wheel training carrier (Wolverien) on Great Lakes, given close US/Canadian interest in avoiding nuclear surprise attack there may be arguments over value and wisdom, but cooperation is virtual certainty. The intrusions refered to above are a result of conflicting claims to waters. (Are they Canadian territorial waters or are they international straits?) This is quite different from ignoring Canadian territorial limits, since the issue is are they? Since the international law tends to recognize defacto claims this leads to demonstration of right of passage sailings. (Sort of like the requirement for the private owner of a road to close it periodically to assert that it is a private road and for public to use "public" trails/roads through private land to assert that the public has not abandoned their right of access. (There are actually clubs in england which keep track and have members walk trails to "keep them public".) >> MAD DETECTION: What is the optimal altitude for MAD >> detection (in reality/the game)? Does it differ for >> helicopters & airplanes? > >A P3C technician told me that the MAD equipment has a short detection >range. The P3C has to fly at a very low altitude and it practically has >to fly right over the submarine to get a response from the MAD. The relative speed is a component of sensitivity of detection equipment, so there is a little difference, however very low very fast is not the safest idea so actual speeds are not toowdifferent.e (Or think about the physical field being detected.)(?)yof ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 8:15:51 CST From: youngs@CC.UManitoba.CA Subject: Freshwater SSBN and Canadian Naval Power > During World War II the Navy had a submarine yard in Manitowoc, > Wisconsin. According to my Uncle, who lives nearby, it built > diesel-electric fleet class submarines and was shut down after the end > of the war. There is plenty of room in Lake Michigan to hide SSBNs. A > SSBN is much larger than a World War II era diesel-electric boat but I > don't see why they couldn't be stationed in the Great Lakes. The > Canadians might not like it but they couldn't do much about it. Their > complaints about alleged incursions of U.S. submarines into Canadian > waters in the Atlantic have been ignored by the U.S. Navy. The Canadian > Navy is too weak to do anything about it. > Hah! Perhaps you have not looked at the new frigates that Canada has... the sonars are as good as any. Of course, both Canada and the US Navy are designed for blue-water operations. Also, it would seem that since Lake Michigan is the only Great Lake that is effectively all American, Canada wouldn't have any say in the matter anyway. It just seems that to put a single SSBN in Lake Michagan would require so much effort (a Trident base, Nuclear weapon facilities, *huge* security systems, etc.) to be not worth it. Putting an SSBN in the Great Lakes would be pointless, since an Ohio is pretty-near undetectable when in her element: the deep ocean. Putting one in a lake takes away its two advantages: stealth and maneuverability. (You could probably see it visually from an aircraft on a good day!) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 10:09:22 CST From: bruce@lobby.ti.com (Harlan Bruce) Subject: Harpoon II I've seen lots of folks asking about Harpoon II. All I know is what the customer hotline people at College Station have told me. (I live in Dallas, so the long distance charge is minimal.) - 360 will attempt to have Harpoon II out by Christmas. As software projects go, they'll most likely be later than that without a little luck. - Harpoon II will run only on 386 and better PC's - I didn't ask about Macs. It will run in protected mode so that the 640k conventional memory barrier will vanish. - This game will require a VESA-supporting VGA card. If your machine is more than a year or so old, you'll most likely be out of luck. Cards are available in Dallas typically starting at $85. Yes, VESA is available for 8 and 16-bit cards not just local bus machines as I had previously thought. 360 went with VESA to avoid the mumble-jumble "standardization" of VGA cards prior to VESA. Be careful when you buy a new card - make certain that it is REALLY a VESA supporting card. - 360 has published a land battle war game, Patriot. I assumed it to be a sibling to Harpoon. It uses VESA but not full protected mode operation. It unfortunately is nothing like Harpoon. You set it up and let it go. It is very difficult to see whats going on - who's attacking who, where your units are being pounded, and etc. Very unfun compared to Harpoon. However, the VESA graphings are very good. - Let us hope that many of the bugs in the existing 1.32 Harpoon are taken care of in the new Harpoon II. For those of you who do not have it, I highly recommend the HDS II battlesets / scenarios. Many of these scenarios are very well written - my wife complains about the long hours spent attempting to defeat the bad guys. Happy Harpooning Gene Bruce bruce@lobby.ti.com "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". - Lazarus Long ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #6 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Fri, 19 Nov 93 Volume 16 : Issue 7 Topics: (45) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (46) Great Customer Service (47) VESA cards sinkhole!tlvx!system@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (48) Harpoon 1.32 <73003.2521@CompuServe.COM> (49) Graphics problems, cont... (50) Freshwater SSBN (51) paddle carriers (52) Mac-to-PC scenario conv... (53) Backfire fighters (54) Harpoon II System Requi... (55) News Items (56) Play by email question "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 12:00:00 EST From: The Convergence Zone Subject: Editorial New members since last time: (James Stravers) () (Soeren Busch Knudsen) (Scott Kitchen) (Alexis Manning) (KVS) (Mike Potter) (Lee Reynolds) cz> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 14:22 CST From: "N. S. Miceli" Subject: Great Customer Service Just a short note to let all know how responsive 360 Customer Service has been for me. After waiting about a month to get some disks exchanged (a reasonable wait), I gave their 1-800 number a call, and spoke with a pleasant young man about the status of my disks. He checked into it and found that shipping had been backed up, but the disks should be reaching me within a week. Sure enough, the disks arrived two days later, but were high density 5.25", and I needed 360k disks. A quick e-mail later, Adam Fugman of their Customer Service department sent me exactly what I needed (disks for the HDS Battleset Enhancer, and the upgrade for the 1.32 version of Harpoon). Quick, polite response, and a fast turn around (less than a week). Thanks to Mr. Fugman. Now my question: Will the Battleset Enhancer and 1.32 version of Harpoon run in the low-resolution EGA mode like the 1.2 version of Harpoon did? I'm using an XT machine, EGA card, and a RGB monitor that has been able to display 16 color EGA without problems, for the 1.2 version of Harpoon, the Scenario Editor, and the NACV Battleset. I tried using the 'Harpoon m' command, but the display to my screen is not viewable. Also, if it makes a difference, I didn't have enough room on my hard drive to install the HDSBE, and had to abort the installation. I'm going to have to delete some of my other unimportant software (like WordPerfect), and reinstall that after putting on Harpoon, HDSBE, etc. Comments, advice? Thanks. Nicholas Miceli ba0845@uokmvsa.backbone.uoknor.edu ba0845@uokmvsa.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 11:01:00 EST From: sinkhole!tlvx!system@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (SysOp) Subject: VESA cards > - This game will require a VESA-supporting VGA card. If your machine > is more than a year or so old, you'll most likely be out of luck. > Cards are available in Dallas typically starting at $85. Yes, VESA > is available for 8 and 16-bit cards not just local bus machines as I > had previously thought. 360 went with VESA to avoid the mumble-jumble > "standardization" of VGA cards prior to VESA. Be careful when you > buy a new card - make certain that it is REALLY a VESA supporting > card. I don't believe it to be true, needing to buy another card if yours is older than one year old. A long time ago, I ran across VESA drivers that you run before your application. You need a driver that is specific for your card -- that's the catch. If your card is old, but it's a popular name-brand (ATI, Trident, etc.), I would think all you need is one of these drivers. In fact, I'd be amazed if 360 didn't include some of these drivers with the game, but I have no way of knowing if they would. As a disclaimer, I guess we'll have to try it, to find out for sure. I'd just rather people try this approach rather than possibly waste $85 for a card which they might not even need. On a slightly different topic, will there be a Windows version of H II? ------------------------------ Date: 13 Nov 93 23:05:56 EST From: "David L. Brenner" <73003.2521@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Harpoon 1.32 How can I get ahold of a copy of Harpoon??? I have tried about every store in the Orlando, FL and Cincinnati, OH areas. (don't ask why I chose those locals :-) Can I order directly from 360? I don't think my machine will run Harpoon II if you need a VESA video card. Thanks in advance, David L. Brenner 73003.2521@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 08:59 CST From: "N. S. Miceli" Subject: Graphics problems, continued. As an additional note: I cleared off enough space on my hard drive, and got the HDS BSE to install properly. However, when I update to Harpoon versions 1.3 or 1.32, there is some sort of graphics incompatibility with my system (as previously stated: XT machine, EGA card, RGB monitor; have never had a problem with previous versions of Harpoon using low-res EGA, which gave me a 16 color display). Starting the game up using the 'Harpoon m' switch results in unviewable graphics. I can't even get anything using 'Harpoon c' for CGA. I tried doing the installation again, but _not_ updating the Harpoon version (staying at 1.2). This time, the game came up, nice graphics, etc. But when I tried to access the HDS BSE games, I got the message box which said, "Unable to find B: HDS1EGA.RES" and had to choose the quit game option. And I had run the installation to go to drive C. Does it make any difference that the installation was done from the hard drive instead from floppies? Hope someone on the Convergence Zone, or at 360 can help me fix these problems. (Or do I have to upgrade my computer and video at some point to use these toys?) Thanks. Nicholas Miceli ba0845@uokmvsa.bitnet ba0845@uokmvsa.backbone.uoknor.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 93 16:39:41 -0500 From: Randy Appleton Subject: Freshwater SSBN I don't mean to upset anybody, but one of the outcomes of the War of 1812 was a treaty between the US and UK to de-militarize the Great Lakes. Canada has become the successor to the UK in this treaty. I believe that it would be against the treaty to put a military boat on a military mission in any of the great lakes, including Lake Michigan. Would be sort of neat though, I'm from Chicago. We don't get any truely cool boats that often. Now if you guys can get us a Carrier Battle Group or two ... (Source: The tour guide at Fort Mackinack, the fortress that used to guard the entry to Lake Michigan.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 19:20:22 CET From: Emilio Desalvo Subject: paddle carriers > something about it if they wanted to. (A trivial comment, in WWII the > USN operated a paddle wheel training carrier (Wolverien) on Great Lakes, > given close US/Canadian interest in avoiding nuclear surprise attack There were two training paddle carriers: IX64 Wolverine and IX81 Sable. What is really astounding is the number of aircraft carriers built by the US and the UK during WWII. The number 120 how does sound to you? Bye /\ Emilio Desalvo /<>\ mc4187@mclink.it /____\ FNORD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:58:49 PST From: jewell@genesis.Data-IO.COM (Cal Jewell) Subject: Mac-to-PC scenario converter Found in the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic newsgroup: In article riiali@lut.fi (Beke) writes: # # There are lots of homemade scenarios available and also a mailing list # for Harpoon products. # To which I responded: > > This brings up an interesting point.... [Mod note: Edited for brevity] > Anybody out there good with Macs? Well, anybody want to offer their help? I've got a demo of a nifty Mac tool called Resourcerer (clever name) that claims to be able to generate C code from a given Mac application. Unfortunately, the demo has that feature disabled. Any Mac gurus/developers out there? Heck, if several people wanted to tag team on this, I'd offer to set up a small mailing list for the interested parties. -- Cal... "I have this product idea should make me milllions once I patent and sell it to all those easily jewell@Data-IO.com offended households: it's called an `off switch'." ...!pilchuck!jewell -- Phil Karn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:07:32 CST From: e4kkyiu@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Ken Yiu) Subject: Backfire fighters Howdy! In Digest 16 #6, "Steve Gable" wrote about the air-to-air variant of the Backfire bomber. I assume he is referring to the "proposed variant" designated the Tu-22MP in the North Atlantic Convoys battleset. This is a useful little beastie. Does anyone know if this is even remotely on the drawing board? Also, does this appear in any battleset apart from NACV? (I couldn't find it in HDS I). What senarios does this fighter appear in? It's always useful to have a fighter which can run at full afterburners for long periods of time without running dry like most smaller planes do. Flying around 120 nm from F14s, drawing their Phoenixes, then running away at 1100kts strips a CV CAP quickly, without losses! Is this in HDS II? Cheers. Ken Yiu. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Yiu - e4kkyiu@eiffel.aelmg.adelaide.edu.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:46:55 EST From: "WILLIAM JENNINGS" Subject: Harpoon II System Requirements, FAQs + Command Levels I recently querried Three-Sixty @ Harpoon II System Requirements. Here's what they sent back: Harpoon II System Requirements: 1. The minimum amount of disk space is not finalized yet, and will vary depending on what you install. (rough pre-guess: 17Meg, 20 Meg for full game) 2. The minimum cpu required is a 386SX, any speed, but 486/33 is recommended. 3. The minimum memory requirement is 4 Meg, 8 Meg recommended. 4. The minimum amount of memory required below the 640k barrier is 64k. Harpoon II uses a DOS extender and will use as much memory as you have (the more the better). 5. The minimum graphics setup is a VESA mode 101 compatible 512k video card (SVGA), a 1 Meg card is recommended. 6. Mouse is required, with a Microsoft or Logitech compatible driver. 7. The new projected release date is December. 8. The suggested retail price is $69.95, but people who advance order direct from Three-Sixty can get their copy for $49.95 (for registered owners of any Three-Sixty product) or $54.95 otherwise. {I expressed a desire for option switches to make play easier & allow for a paced transition to H2} Harpoon II will have lots of option switches, and will use lots of smaller data files {in lieu of the current large file structure}. DATA FILES: I also asked if the HDS1 & HDS2 MEDC data files were the same. Despite same filesize & passing a DOS file comparison in binary mode, the answer is no. FAQ1: How do I view the Harpoon II .GIF file that has been placed on the archive site? (Where can I get a GIF file viewer on Internet?) FAQ2-WINDOWS: The icon file on the archive site suggested its creator was running Harpoon under Windows. Alas, he was using OS/2. Is anyone using Windows? If so, what are your PIF settings? COMMAND LEVELS UPDATE: In TWENTY+ QUESTIONS, I asked about command levels. I have gotten some private replies since then + looked @ the Naval Institute's Soviet Fleet Guide. Here's a revised (but still fairly loose) list. USN RN CISNAV FF Cmdr Cmdr Capt3 DD ??? Cmdr Capt2/3 CG Capt N/A Capt2 LHD/CVH Capt Capt Capt1/2 CV(N) Capt N/A Capt1 SS LCmdr Cmdr Capt2 SSN Cmdr Cmdr Capt2 SS(B/G)N Capt Cmdr Capt1 RN FF or DD commanded by a Captain is likely a squadron/flotilla commander. Also, FF Type 22/3 have a Capt. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:47:02 EST From: "WILLIAM JENNINGS" Subject: News Items New York Times news items: RN SSBN: Britain plans to limit SLBM warhead inventory to current levels. Although the building Trident fleet could carry 512 warheads, they will, in fact, be limited to 196, the number carried by Polaris subs. ISRAELI F15s: US has formally offered 20 modified (ICE?) F-15Es to Israel. CHINA: In a now-banned, seemingly authoritative book, China's military stance is laid out. The US is viewed as their principal adversary. Eight war scenarios are outlined incl. 1) retake Taiwan, 2) War in Korea, & 3) Seizing South China Sea oilfields [perhaps a worthwhile Harpoon 2 scenario]. Chinese military leaders are apparently angered by the Taiwanese F16 sale & US sanctions due to missle equipment sales. LOST USN SSNs: Navy says Thresher & Scorpion, SSNs lost in the 1960s, show no signs of nuclear contamination although low levels of Cobalt-60 from reactor cooling systems were found. 1994 DEFENSE BUDGET includes $ for 20 B2, 12 F16, 6 C17, & a pay raise. The article did not mention prefunding the third Seawolf SSN. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 08:31:40 -1000 From: HNL DQ ENGINEERING Subject: Play by email question Forgive this newbee question but, I've been reading this mailing list for a while and was wondering why there's no discussion of Harpoon Play-by-Email. Is this right place to look for opponents and referees? And, does anyone still play this game with a pad of graph paper and Larry Bond's game rules? I bought the game rules a number of years ago, but haven't been able to find opponents. Is anyone out there interested in playing a few beginning scenarios? I can be reached at "phil_s1@verifone.com" if you are intersted in playing and/or refereeing. thanks, phil ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #7 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Thu, 02 Dec 93 Volume 16 : Issue 8 Topics: (57) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (58) Customer support, Tu-22... (59) Re: VESA cards (60) VESA Drivers - 386 prov... (61) A bug and a question (62) Re: Harpoon Upgrades/Cu... (63) Harpoon II (64) re: harpoon ii system r... (65) Harpoon II "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 10:00:00 EST From: The Convergence Zone Subject: Editorial It's been a busy week, (the Space Shuttle launch this morning was to service our telescope) and I'll be at DECUS next week. New members since last time: (Roy Lee) (Dave Kline) (G. Lim-Joon) (M. Chiaco) (Andrew Patterson) (David Francis Mastin) (Eugene Wilson-Evans) (Matt Harrop) (Adam Jonathan Faier) (Bob Schultz) (Benson Toy) (Mark Milem) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 11:18:49 HST From: goldader@akasha.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Jeff Goldader) Subject: Customer support, Tu-22MP, bugfix? I have to join Nicholas Miceli in thanking Three-Sixty's Adam Fugman for great customer support. I bought HDSII for my Mac. Three sets from the same store failed to yield a set of disks all readable by my Mac (I tried three other Macs, too...). Several tries at getting readable disks from Three-Sixty also failed, but after three or four disk mailings from Adam, I finally found a Mac here at work able to read the last disk I needed. I am now a happy HDSII user. Thanks, Adam! On one other note, the Tu-22MP fighter variant of the Backfire isn't listed in the Harpoon database that was included with HDSII. Does that mean that there are other platform variants included in the battlesets that aren't listed in the database, or is the Tu-22MP an exception? (I'd *love* to have half a dozen of those when playing as Red!! Imagine the "Ingress" scenario in HDSII with some Tu-22MPs to peel away the CAP from the CVBG...) Finally, can I make a plea for a final bugfix of Harpoon 1.x for those of us who have only black-and-white Macs? I guess we can't use Harpoon II at all without 8 bits of color. I know Harpoon 1.x has to be frozen, but taking care of the problems would let those of us who can't use the new game get the most enjoyment we can out of the old. (And I could finally fire a BB's 16-inch guns at the bases in Iraq- or has that bug been fixed?) -Jeff Goldader ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 20:54:46 +0100 From: Markus Stumptner Subject: Re: VESA cards > - This game will require a VESA-supporting VGA card. If your machine > is more than a year or so old, you'll most likely be out of luck. >I don't believe it to be true, needing to buy another card if yours is >older than one year old. A long time ago, I ran across VESA >drivers that you run before your application. [...] >I'd just rather people try this approach rather than possibly waste $85 for >a card which they might not even need. I looked on wuarchive.wustl.edu, and indeed found a package called univesa32.zip in mirrors/simtel/msdos/vga (or thereabouts), that claims to be a driver which provides VESA compatibility for a number of major manufacturers. (About a dozen were listed, including ATI, Trident, Tseng). I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but obviously that is something everybody has to try for himself, given that it depends on the individual card. Markus Stumptner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 10:30:44 -0600 (CST) From: Russell Reddoch Subject: VESA Drivers - 386 providing Reply-to: The Convergence Zone mailing list > [Mod note: Quoted same material as above.] > > When I installed 386's Patriot Games the installer checked my card and provided a driver (Trident) which worked fine. ------------------------------ From: e4kkyiu@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Ken Yiu) Subject: A bug and a question Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 9:03:30 CST Hi! First of all a bug. I don't know if this has been posted before, but here it is. It seems to do with the way that Harpoon models attack ranges. I'm guessing, but the computer seems to launch missiles and other weapons when a craft hits the max range for that weapon. I also notice that often a weapons carrier will endeavour to stay at max range until that particular weapon is exhausted. The problem with this method is when you have to do a quick alpha strike. For example, if you detect a enemy TF 50nm from a carrier, and immediately sortie a strike package armed with Harpoons, the aircraft simply won't launch the missiles without human intervention. They will just fly closer and closer to the target till they reach SAM range, and all die. The same thing happened to the computer. I brought a surface fleet to within 200nm of bases on the Kola peninsula. The computer launched Backfires armed (I presume) with Kingfish (which have about a 250nm range). The Backfires did not launch their missiles, even though they had me on Big Bulge radar (via Bears), and I splashed the lot using SAMs. What seems to be needed is a modification to the range test, to let a platform automatically peform the launch routine if the target range is LESS THAN OR EQUAL to the weapon range, and not just EQUALS to. (Note that I am running Harpoon 1.32, not HARP386, which seems really buggy and seems to lose a lot of memory pointers). The question I have is about the Harpoon upgrade path for Overseas distributors. In Australia, the Harpoon distribution has been taken over by Electronic Arts. Does anyone (perhaps Aust. readers) know if there are any plans to provide a similar upgrade for registered users?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Yiu - e4kkyiu@eiffel.aelmg.adelaide.edu.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 11:29:06 -0800 (PST) From: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) Subject: Re: Harpoon Upgrades/Customer Service > > Despite the fact I sent in my registration cards I haven't received > any notification from 360 about upgrade availability. I am a Mac > user and I'm assuming there is a version 1.3x available. I > first suspected a version incompatibility when I downloaded some > scenarios from the bulletin board only to find they couldn't be > launched, even though they showed up as valid Harpoon files in > my Mac directory. I've been using version 1.2 on the Mac (there could be a newer one, I haven't been paying attention). The trick to use the scenarios from the FTP site is this. They can't be double clicked (this is a problem with the way Harpoon was written, not with the scenarios). No User written scenarios can me double click loaded. Launch Harpoon as normal. Open a Battleset (make sure its the same one that goes with the user written scenario, you can tell which one it is by the first 4 letters of the name of the scenario file eg. IOPGKR0 would go with the IOPG Indian Ocean Battleset). Load any of the scenarios from that Battleset (it doesn't matter which). When the scenario loads, go to the File Menu, and use the "Load User Scenario" command. Command-L will work too. Harpoon will then ask you if you want to quit the current game, say yes, and then load the user written scenario.....its that easy. This is really an FAQ, so CZ moderator if you are listening, could you please get this into the next CZ list.....thanks. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 12:34:41 MST From: "Stewart E. Yin" Subject: H II In regards to the imminent release of Harpoon II and the need for a VESA card. What is a VESA, I have PS/2 - Model 80 with a VGA monitor. What is needed to upgrade to run Harpoon II? There has been mention made of "Juno-Gold-Sword" scenarios in the news letters, are these another set produced by 360 like the battleset enhancer set with the additional scenarios? How can one get these scenarios as well as about Harpoon II? I am running low on memory running the "Hindu-Muslim War" scenario in HDS II but don't understand since my machine has 8 Meg memory running DOS 5.02. How can I set up machine to use this extra memory. I also have dual boot OS/2 but Harpoon runs real slow under OS/2 and runs better with DOS booted natively, can Harpoon run under OS/2? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 22:50:04 CET From: Emilio Desalvo Subject: re: harpoon ii system requirements > 1. The minimum amount of disk space is not finalized yet, > and will vary depending on what you install. (rough > pre-guess: 17Meg, 20 Meg for full game) Yuk! Talking about memory economy! I've just bought Frontier (Elite II) for the Amiga, and both the Amiga and the ms-dos versions occupies 650kbytes on the HD! And the Amiga version runs on a plain A2000, with a 68000! Maybe a tad slow, but you still get the docking in the axial bay of a Coriolis space station, while the Blue Danube plays in the background! Bye ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 15:42:27 -0500 From: jlr8@po.CWRU.Edu (Jonathan L. Reimer) Subject: Harpoon II I recently talked to Three-Sixty about the imminent release of Harpoon II, and found out the following: -the game will be released in mid-January at a cost of $49.95 -apparently, the game is designed to run well in either DOS or Windows (I'll believe it when I see it) -there will not be individual Battlesets as in the original game, since the game comes with the map of the entire world -the game will be multi-windowed so that you can view battles happening at different locations on the map -there will be approximately 15 scenarios included with the game -a scenario editor will be a follow-on product issued "soon" after the game is released Let's hope Harpoon II lives up to its billing! Jonathan Reimer jlr8@po.cwru.edu ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #8 ***************************** The Convergence Zone Tue, 14 Dec 93 Volume 16 : Issue 9 Topics: (66) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (67) A farewell to Old Friends (68) Weapons Release -- Bug... (69) Re: Weapons Release (70) Mac Harpoon II ?? (71) Harpoon II VESA, etc. <100325.322@CompuServe.COM> (72) Volume 16 Index cz-request@stsci.edu (73) CZ Guidelines cz-request@stsci.edu "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. Submissions: cz@stsci.edu Administration: cz-request@stsci.edu Archives: anonymous FTP for CZ and Computer Scenarios (Amiga, Mac, PC) N.A. sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9): pub/harpoon Scenario Archive Administrators Amiga: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline) Macintosh: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) PC: riiali@kannel.lut.fi (Pekka Riiali) Drop Off Site: jumi.lut.fi (157.24.10.9) pub/harpoon/incoming Please send e-mail to the appropriate administrator when dropping off scenarios! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 16:00:00 EST From: The Convergence Zone Subject: Editorial This is the last issue of Volume 16; the index and a copy of the Guidelines follows. New members since last time: (Art) (Benjamin J. Keen) (Alex Klaus) (Michael Mandelberg) (Jim Norris) (Steve Ramirez) (Marc Lovelace) (Jay Gehringer) cz> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 13:41:01 -0500 From: "Robert H. Tullman" Subject: A farewell to Old Friends Yes, many old friends are leaving us. Harpooners are doubtless familiar with the names below, having fought with them and against them...agonized as torpedoes and missiles reduced them to flaming hulks, or cheered as they sailed into harm's way and back out. The December 1993 issue of USNI Proceedings details a list of ships to be decommissioned in 1994. A partial transcription follows. Estimates are that the fleet will number 300-350 active and reserve ships by the year 2000 (vs. 435 on the Naval Vessel Register as of Oct 1 1993). Carriers: The Saratoga, CV-60 to be cut as the carrier force declines to 11 plus 1 reserve/training carrier (the JFK CV-67) Cruisers: Slated for decommissioning are 19 cruisers, including all ships of the Leahy (CG-16) and Belnkap (CG-26) classes, except the Belknap herself. The two nuclear cruisers, the Long Beach (CGN-9) and Virginia (CGN-38) are the first nuclear powered surface ships to be taken out of service. The seven remaining CGN's will be decommissioned over the next few years leaving only fossil fueled escorts for nuclear carriers. Frigates: Eight Knox class frigates, designated as training ships (FFT) will be gone. Sixteen Oliver Hazard Perry (FFG-7) frigates will be retained in Naval Reserve status, but may be gone in a few years. Breakdown by ship: Cruisers:Frigates: CG-16 Leahy FFT-1078 Joseph Hawes CG-17 Harry E. Yarnell FFT-1079 Bowen CG-18 Worden FFT-1084 McCandless CG-19 Dale FFT-1085 Donald B. Beary CG-20 Richmond K. Turner FFT-1089 Jesse L. Brown CG-21 Gridley FFT-1090 Ainsworth CG-22 England FFT-1095 Truett CG-23 Halsey FFT-1097 Moinester CG-24 Reeves CG-27 Josephus Daniels CG-28 Wainwright CG-29 Jouett CG-30 Home CG-31 Sterett CG-32 William H. Standley CG-33 Fox CG-34 Biddle CGN-9 Long Beach CGN-38 Virginia Fourteen amphibious ships will get the axe and the Inchon (LPH-12) will be refitted to become Mine countermeasures support ship MCS-8. How about us Harpooners writing some memorial scenarios "Blazes of Glory" giving these old warhorses (seahorses??) a final tribute. I haven't checked to see if they are all in the databases, but I recall most of them (with fondness). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1993 11:29:07 From: steveg@highsier.win.net (Steve Gable) Subject: Weapons Release -- Bug/Feature > From: e4kkyiu@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Ken Yiu) > Subject: A bug and a question > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 9:03:30 CST > > Hi! > First of all a bug. I don't know if this has been posted before, but > here it is. It seems to do with the way that Harpoon models attack > ranges. I'm guessing, but the computer seems to launch missiles and > other weapons when a craft hits the max range for that weapon. I also > notice that often a weapons carrier will endeavour to stay at max range > until that particular weapon is exhausted. The problem.... is real (although Three Sixty would probably claim it is a feature intended to increase the "friction of war"). A work around tactic is to erase the attack order, set course for the target to be attacked, and then reissue the attack order once inside the max range. This increases the stress on the player to keep up with events but then... War is Hell Steve Meaders ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:15:28 -0500 From: Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (Michael A. Ney) Subject: Re: Weapons Release ---------- > >From: e4kkyiu@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Ken Yiu) >Subject: A bug and a question >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 9:03:30 CST > [Mod note -- duplicate/extraneous info deleted] > >What seems to be needed is a modification to the range test, to let a >platform automatically peform the launch routine if the target range is >LESS THAN OR EQUAL to the weapon range, and not just EQUALS to. Yea I understand what your getting at, but at the same time I don't want to let all of my missiles 'fly' automatically. On missions that I'm looking to take out 'specific' targets, I'd like hold off. We don't always have a positive 'fix' on a prime target and I'd prefer if I could hold my missiles to the right moment. As soon as airborne, an ATTACK command will allow missile launch (as long as you are within range). Which brings to mind a good question. Does missile accuracy increase/decrease with distance? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 17:56:39 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Andrew Morgan Subject: Mac Harpoon II ?? This may have been dealt with earlier but I missed it. The announcement from 360 mentions Harpoon II for the PC to be released in January. Is there any prospective date for the Macintosh release? --Eric _____________________________________________________________________________ ENS Eric A. Morgan, USN | The opinions expressed here are my NMCRRC, Pittsburgh | own and do not necessarily reflect | those of any agency I represent. ________________________________________|____________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 08 Dec 93 16:38:44 EST From: Anders Jarnberg <100325.322@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Harpoon II, VESA, etc [Mod note: edited for format] >In regards to the imminent release of Harpoon II and the need for a >VESA card. What is a VESA, I have PS/2 - Model 80 with a VGA monitor. >What is needed to upgrade to run Harpoon II? I seem to remember them saying SVGA with 640x480x256, which would exclude VGA cards with 512 k onboard ? >There has been mention made of "Juno-Gold-Sword" scenarios in the news >letters, are these another set produced by 360 like the battleset >enhancer set with the additional scenarios? This are scenarios for their other big hit, the V for Victory series which is a WWII game. >How can one get these scenarios as well as about Harpoon II? I am >running low on memory running the "Hindu-Muslim War" scenario in HDS II >but don't understand since my machine has 8 Meg memory running DOS >5.02. How can I set up machine to use this extra memory. I also have >dual boot OS/2 but Harpoon runs real slow under OS/2 and runs better >with DOS booted natively, can Harpoon run under OS/2? I'm running Harpoon in OS/2 only nowadays. Not only does it allow me to have more memory (my current DOS box in OS/2 has 645 k free, and that's fully loaded with mouse and CD-ROM), it also gives better performance in my view. The whole game runs smoother. But you may need to tinker somewhat with the DOS box settings to get it running better. Oh, and I'm running OS/2 2.1 by the way. regards, Anders Jarnberg SWEDEN CompuServe ID: 100325,322 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 16:20:00 EST From: The Convergence Zone mailing list Subj: Volume 16 Index Volume Issue Date Messages Author - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 16 1 Wed, 11 Aug 1993 (01) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (02) Type 23 in NACV "Force..." (03) Re: CZ Digest Volume ..." (04) Mac Harpoon (05) Miniature game question (06) Harpoon by modem 16 2 Fri, 27 Aug 1993 (07) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (08) RE: Mac Harpoon ROHDE@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV (09) HDS 2 bruce@bonnie.astro.ucla.edu (10) Mac Version Update wrowe@reed.edu (11) A1200 (12) Victory conditions ??? Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (13) munitions available fea... Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (14) Sea Shadow (15) amiga upgrades 16 3 Wed, 20 Sep 1993 (16) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (17) Re: CZ Digest V16 lcline@ibeam.intel.com (18) re: mac harpoon (19) RE: Mac Harpoon wam@tfn.com (20) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- HDS rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (21) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- loads rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (22) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- Amiga rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (23) Mines in Harpoon, how? 16 4 Fri, 29 Oct 1993 (24) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (25) Harpoon sound support mr!dev2!rbuyaky@uu3.psi.com (26) Dusty versions (27) Naval Institute Proceed... tojohnso@major.cs.mtu.edu (28) What is available? (29) A glimmer of things to ... (30) More Mac(1.21) bugs ummorea0@CC.UManitoba.CA (31) Creating custom weapon ... stb@isbank.is (32) Twenty+ Questions 16 5 Fri, 05 Nov 1993 (33) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (34) Re: Creating custom w... (35) Harpoon upgrade/platfo... (36) Re: 20+ Questions (37) Scenario Adaption 16 6 Fri, 12 Nov 1993 (38) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (39) AMRAMM-ski/AWACS kills (40) Refueling from Tanker A... (41) Some answers to Twenty ... (42) CZ Twenty Questions, mo... (43) Freshwater SSBN and Can... (44) Harpoon II 16 7 Fri, 19 Nov 1993 (45) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (46) Great Customer Service (47) VESA cards sinkhole!tlvx!system@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (48) Harpoon 1.32 <73003.2521@CompuServe.COM> (49) Graphics problems, cont... (50) Freshwater SSBN (51) paddle carriers (52) Mac-to-PC scenario conv... (53) Backfire fighters (54) Harpoon II System Requi... (55) News Items (56) Play by email question 16 8 Thu, 02 Dec 1993 (57) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (58) Customer support, Tu-22... (59) Re: VESA cards (60) VESA Drivers - 386 prov... (61) A bug and a question (62) Re: Harpoon Upgrades/Cu... (63) Harpoon II (64) re: harpoon ii system r... (65) Harpoon II 16 9 Tue, 14 Dec 1993 (66) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (67) A farewell to Old Friends (68) Weapons Release -- Bug... (69) Re: Weapons Release (70) Mac Harpoon II ?? (71) Harpoon II VESA, etc. <100325.322@CompuServe.COM> (72) Volume 16 Index cz-request@stsci.edu (73) CZ Guidelines cz-request@stsci.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 16:20:00 EST From: The Convergence Zone mailing list Subj: CZ Guidelines Guidelines for The Convergence Zone Last Update: 24 April 1993 Authors: tcomeau@stsci.edu (Tom Comeau - CZ Moderator) tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu (Ted Kim - CZ Moderator Emeritus) Welcome to The Convergence Zone! Goal ---- "The Convergence Zone" (or just "CZ" for short) is an electronic mailing list for the discussion of the Harpoon naval wargame series and related topics. The Harpoon products include Harpoon, Captain's Edition Harpoon, Computer Harpoon, Harpoon SITREP, and various supplements for the print and computer versions. Naval topics are discussed in so far as they are related to the game or provide useful background. The goal of CZ is interesting discussions and material and just plain fun. Signup ------ To sign up, send mail to "cz-request@stsci.edu" indicating that you wish to subscribe to CZ. Please enclose your fullname and preferred e-mail address, if these are different from the mail header information. If possible, please use an Internet e-mail address. This is handled by a real person, not a fully-automatic list server, so format isn't particularly important. When you signup, you will be sent the article you are now reading for your information and to test the e-mail address. As long the message is not rejected within a day or so, you will be sent back issues from the current volume, unless you request otherwise in your signup message. CZ is published in digest form in RFC 1153 compatible format. Previous volumes are available from the archives (see below). The first nine volumes were published in an format that does not conform to RFC 1153. Submissions ----------- Messages for submission to the mailing list should be sent to "cz@stsci.edu". All messages are subject to possible rejection or editing by the moderator. Rejection should be pretty rare and only occurs if the subject of a message is wholly inappropriate or if the message is offensive. (Please keep flames to a minimum!) Editing should be pretty rare also. Reasons for editing include (but are not necessarily limited to) extreme length, obvious errors and really bad formatting. Any editing will be noted. Please double check your submissions for errors and try to stay within 72 characters per line. Anything sent to "cz@stsci.edu" will be considered a submission, and will likely be published in the digest. Administration -------------- Administrative requests, such as unsubscribing or address change, should be sent to "cz-request@stsci.edu". Once in a while, the moderator has to do real work, so please be patient. If several people on the same machine receive the CZ, please try to organize a local redistribution. Addresses are generally dropped from the list after two e-mail errors on consecutive issues, or at the request of an apparently responsible person at the site. (e.g., root@yoursite.dom or system@yoursite.dom sends me a message that says "That person isn't here anymore") Anything sent to "cz-request@stsci.edu" will be considered administrative, and will not be considered for publication. Archives -------- After each volume is complete, it along with an index is placed on the archive sites for access by anonymous FTP. The archive sites and the path to the Harpoon directory root are given below: North America sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12): pub/harpoon Europe ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42): harpoon The CZ archive is in the "cz" subdirectory under the Harpoon directory root. The CZ archive volumes are named v1.Z, v2.Z, etc and are in UNIX compress format (see below). The index files are named i1.Z, i2.Z, etc. A few other items appear under separate names. The complete list is in the file "INDEX". Please be polite and don't FTP during peak load hours during a workday. Scenarios --------- User written scenarios for Amiga, Macintosh and IBM-PC versions of the computer game are also stored on the archive site under the the Harpoon directory root in subdirectories "amiga", "mac" and "pc" respectively. Each directory contains a file called "INDEX" and one called "README". The "INDEX" file lists the contents of that directory. The "README" file describes the scenario formats, procedures for uploading, who administrates the directory, etc. The scenarios themselves are in the compressed files. If "README" and "INDEX" are sufficiently long they too will be in UNIX compress format as "README.Z" and "INDEX.Z". The moderator is interested in a scenario archive for the board game, that would include ship sheets, forces, and related scenario material. If you are willing to consider supporting such an archive, please send mail to "cz-request@stsci.edu" to so indicate. UNIX Compress Format -------------------- Unix compress format files (.Z extension) can be restored using the proper utility for your system. These utilities and where to get them (i.e., anonymous FTP archives) are listed below. The information was derived from the compression summary found on ftp.cso.uiuc.edu:/doc/pcnet/compression (8 Oct 92 revision) and the comp.compression newsgroup FAQ (29 Oct 92 revision). Amiga: compress ftp.cso.uiuc.edu (128.174.5.59): /amiga/fish/f0/ff051.lzh Mac: MacCompress3.2 sumex-aim.stanford.edu (36.44.0.6): /info-mac/util/maccompress-32.hqx PC: comp430d wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4): /mirrors/msdos/compress/comp430d.zip garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.87.1): /pc/unix/comp430d.zip PC: u16 ftp.cso.uiuc.edu (128.174.5.59): /pc/exec-pc/u16.zip UNIX: uncompress, zcat uncompress is a standard UNIX command; if unavailable, try wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4): /packages/compression/compress-4.1.tar Disclaimer ---------- Even though CZ often discusses products of Game Designers Workshop and Three-Sixty Pacific, Inc., it is not officially connected with either. It is an entirely volunteer effort of ethusiastic naval wargamers. All services are being provided with no representations about the suitability of these services for any purpose. It is provided "as is" without express or implied warranty. Three-Sixty Pacific, Inc. (makers of the computer version of Harpoon) does not accept responsibility for any of the services or scenario files that are provided by the archives. ------------------------------ End of CZ Digest V16 Issue #9 ***************************** Volume Issue Date Messages Author - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 16 1 Wed, 11 Aug 1993 (01) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (02) Type 23 in NACV "Force..." (03) Re: CZ Digest Volume ..." (04) Mac Harpoon (05) Miniature game question (06) Harpoon by modem 16 2 Fri, 27 Aug 1993 (07) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (08) RE: Mac Harpoon ROHDE@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV (09) HDS 2 bruce@bonnie.astro.ucla.edu (10) Mac Version Update wrowe@reed.edu (11) A1200 (12) Victory conditions ??? Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (13) munitions available fea... Michael.A.Ney@cc.gettysburg.edu (14) Sea Shadow (15) amiga upgrades 16 3 Wed, 20 Sep 1993 (16) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (17) Re: CZ Digest V16 lcline@ibeam.intel.com (18) re: mac harpoon (19) RE: Mac Harpoon wam@tfn.com (20) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- HDS rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (21) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- loads rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (22) Re: CZ Digest V16 -- Amiga rouhier@wpdis03.wpafb.af.mil (23) Mines in Harpoon, how? 16 4 Fri, 29 Oct 1993 (24) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (25) Harpoon sound support mr!dev2!rbuyaky@uu3.psi.com (26) Dusty versions (27) Naval Institute Proceed... tojohnso@major.cs.mtu.edu (28) What is available? (29) A glimmer of things to ... (30) More Mac(1.21) bugs ummorea0@CC.UManitoba.CA (31) Creating custom weapon ... stb@isbank.is (32) Twenty+ Questions 16 5 Fri, 05 Nov 1993 (33) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (34) Re: Creating custom w... (35) Harpoon upgrade/platfo... (36) Re: 20+ Questions (37) Scenario Adaption 16 6 Fri, 12 Nov 1993 (38) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (39) AMRAMM-ski/AWACS kills (40) Refueling from Tanker A... (41) Some answers to Twenty ... (42) CZ Twenty Questions, mo... (43) Freshwater SSBN and Can... (44) Harpoon II 16 7 Fri, 19 Nov 1993 (45) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (46) Great Customer Service (47) VESA cards sinkhole!tlvx!system@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (48) Harpoon 1.32 <73003.2521@CompuServe.COM> (49) Graphics problems, cont... (50) Freshwater SSBN (51) paddle carriers (52) Mac-to-PC scenario conv... (53) Backfire fighters (54) Harpoon II System Requi... (55) News Items (56) Play by email question 16 8 Thu, 02 Dec 1993 (57) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (58) Customer support, Tu-22... (59) Re: VESA cards (60) VESA Drivers - 386 prov... (61) A bug and a question (62) Re: Harpoon Upgrades/Cu... (63) Harpoon II (64) re: harpoon ii system r... (65) Harpoon II 16 9 Tue, 14 Dec 1993 (66) Editorial cz-request@stsci.edu (67) A farewell to Old Friends (68) Weapons Release -- Bug... (69) Re: Weapons Release (70) Mac Harpoon II ?? (71) Harpoon II VESA, etc. <100325.322@CompuServe.COM> (72) Volume 16 Index cz-request@stsci.edu (73) CZ Guidelines cz-request@stsci.edu